These seem to be average numbers for typical car users. The numbers don't make as much sense if you are not a typical car user.

Depreciation (assuming 5 years * 3392 = 16960, economy car) doesn't make sense if you buy a reliable economy car and keep it for 10 or 12 years. I believe a decently built car can be kept for 20 years if maintained well.

Gasoline could easily be 20%-50% less with even a conventional high-mileage car.

Finance charges don't apply if you save and pay cash.

I guess it is a reasonable thing to look at the 'typical' car owner's expenses, but this illustrates the major problem of the crying need to become 'atypical' and change basic habits. Even if it is changing driving habits to maximize mileage, but better, use the car less or not at all. Tinkering with these numbers avoids addressing the real problem we face of minimizing or eliminating the auto culture.

Yes, but it isn't just the owner who decides how long the car lasts.
You are exactly correct.  My 1999 Hyundai Accent is a great car - been absolutely reliable, it's fun to drive, and it gets around 36mpg (mostly highway) even though I drive it pretty fast.  But with 65000mi on it, it is almost worthless according to the insurance and trade in values.  But so what?  It works great, and there are 4 years or 35000mi left on the powertrain warrenty!  And because it isn't worth anything, I've cancelled the collision part of the insurance.  

Depreciation only matters if you sell it.  

If I wrecked it now, I'd buy a used car though.

i think depreciation does matter even if you keep the car because of repairs. the car was made to be disposable at 100k and very soon after that it will need an extreme amount of parts-it is way not cost effective after 100k.
What kind of car are you talking about? My experience is mostly with Japanese cars, Toyota and Honda, and I would say that 200,000 miles is a reasonable expectation -- given good maintenance. I've had bad experience with US cars and rotten experience with VWs. I'll stick to the Japs.

buying used, barring getting a lemon, is probably the most cost-effective way to go, as most of the depreciation has already happened. Also, not being so concerned with spotless finish, etc. but the bare-bones functionality.

oh, i definately agree with you--- jap cars 200,000-- hyundai- 100k.  

i think hyundais are better bought new(dirt cheap!!)
jap cars better used(toyota best)

Maybe in the past, but no more.  Hyundai's quality is now up with Toyota and Honda.
100,000k is just getting broken in!  

I really don't get your link between depreciation and repairs - are you saying I'll be forced to sell it after 100,000k, and so the depreciation will matter then?  In my case, it won't, because I'll keep it and fix it myself, but of course not everyone will be willing to do that.

One thing to keep in mind is that if you buy a simpler, less expensive vehicle, you have less of an investment to depriciate, and less stuff to go wrong.  

There is value, and then there is value.  My car is far more valuable than the book says it is.  You just can't play the game their way and expect to win - it's rigged in the house's favor.    

OTOH, if you own a gas pig, I'd dump it now, even if you get beat up a bit.  Can you imagine what the depreciation rate is going to be if gas hit $4?  Even if you don't have the cash to pay it off, trade it in on something inexpensive that gets good mileage.  That way you won't be stuck with a car that is worthless AND too expensive to drive.  

I drive a big 1985 300SD Turbo Diesel, 30+MPG, 210K miles on the orginal engine/trans.  My mechanic says these will go for 400K miles easily.
Mine is also a "W123" model Mercedes; a 1982 240D.  My mechanic says 400,000 to 500,000 with "average" maintenance for the engine, longer for body (sans salt) and transmission.  With my maintenance (synthetic fluids), a potential million miles !

Mine is 4 cyclinder without a turbocharger, that adds a bit to longevity.

200,000 miles, 400,000 to go sounds great. That's equivalent to a round trip from Earth to the moon and back, plus gratuitous orbits! Just to put it into perspective. That's a lot of driving. If the drivetrain has another 400,000 miles left, it might actually last until the oil is gone. Just make sure your heat shield tiles are glued on good!

My Kia Rio has 50,000 miles on it and has a 10 year/100K warranty on the drivetrain. It's a Year 2001 model I bought at the 50,000 mile mark/5 year mark. 2 orbits, 2 to go for the warranty. Unfortunately, becuse Kia only recently emerged, nobody knows the long term reliability of Kias. New, they cost about $10,000 and mine was $5,000. With most of the depreciation out of the way it won't be long until I'm flying right-side-up financially. As gas prices go up, it might actually appreciate in value after a while - unlike SUVs. Meanwhile, SUV values will crash n' burn.

Mercedes W123s are considered to be the best of all automobiles for conversion to biodiesel (SOLID Bosch mechanical fuel injection "can push bananas", not lubricated by fuel as many others are).

I will never see high mileage (31 mpg x 75 gallons/year x 30 years = 70,000 miles more) but I like solid cars :-)

And the energy to build it lies 24 years in the past.  I will let the future owner wear it out with biodiesel.

i've been checking local classifieds for quite a while looking for circa 1980 mercedes diesels with approx 150,000 miles on them. they are few and far between - as one would expect. they are also pretty expensive. unfortunately, too many people already know the value in these automobiles. but maybe i'll get lucky one of these days
For most cars the actual milage doesn't matter. Most cars drive to the junkyard. The car breaks down on the breaks, or the fuel pump, or the transmission or the doors fall off. Or somebody steals your radio and smashes the windows/dashboard etc.

The average diesel can do more than 300 k miles over its lifetime, without any trouble. If you treat a diesel nice, 600 k miles is very well possible without much hassle, the brand doesn't really matter that much. But if you drive only 15 k miles per year, that will take you 20-40 years to do. Which is a bit much.

My girlfriend recently bought a 3 year old Hyundai factory-fitted for LPG. 3000 euros! (about $4000) I couldn't believe it. Apparently they sell so cheaply because they have no reputation for reliability (or perhaps have a reputation for unreliability, I'm not sure)

But if I find one like it, I'll buy it, no question... LPG is one third the price of petrol here in France.

Yes, This is an average. If anyone can find a further breakdown, please send it in.

But logically, if you move away from the mean on the higher end like the Luxury autos, depreciation is higher and gas prices are lower as a percentage - these folks may be less price sensitive (assuming they make more money) and those with older cars will have to spend more on maintenance and gas a percentage and will probably be more sensitive.

And I guess you could say that people that lease their car pay their implied depreciation every month.

But I guess the main issue is that once you own or lease a car, you incur a lot of fixed costs that are not dependent on how many miles you drive - except gas.

Even at 20mpg and $3.50 gas driving a mile only costs an incremental 17.5 cents. Most mass transit costs $1-2 for any trip, so the breakeven analysis of a car trip for a car owner is pretty high. And in economics, the marginal cost is all that really matters in the short term.

I thought the justification for luxury cars was that they kept their value longer.
They may keep a higher percentage of their value longer, but they start from such a higher value, the depreciation on an absolute dollar basis will probably higher than the average above. You can contrast the depreciation in a Lexus with all the mentions here of buying used cars and driving them for 200k miles...I feel like this thread is turning into Car Talk on NPR!
"Finance charges don't apply if you save and pay cash."

If you save and pay cash, that you are not paying interest or finance charges but you ARE forgoing the interest you might earn if you put the money to some modestly better use, such as a bank CD.  Interest at 5% per annum on the purchase price of $20,000 comes to $1,000 per year.

The number seems like a reasonable average to me.

The devil's in the details, but in most cases you're going to do better putting the cash down on the car:

  1. There's a very good chance that the interest rate on your car loan is going to be higher than the rate on a bank CD - banks strongly prefer to charge interest than to pay interest - so that whole $1000 and then some will usually disappear into your car payments anyway.

  2. Unless you invest your money in some sort of tax-deferred account (e.g. an IRA), you'll owe tax on the interest you earn - whereas you never owe tax on interest you didn't pay. So putting money down up front and not paying interest on a 5% car loan is roughly equivalent to investing that same money at 6.5% (or even more, if you're in a higher tax bracket).
This all seems like a strange way to look at the costs.  Here's an alternative:

The truck/car itself is like a house.  There is a long-term commitment to pay $x99 per month (x depends on the level of status symbol you want to convey), which includes the finance charges.  You can get rid of the truck/car at any point, but there are steep charges if you do, so most people stick it out for two or more years.  That means that the $x99 is a sunk cost commitment, like the house payment, paid in monthly installments.

Next, people pay for insurance just like house insurance.  There's some price for a year, but they pay either semi-annually or monthly.  I would guess that most pay monthly.  So there's another sunk cost commitment payed in monthly installments.

Next, there are repairs, maintenance, and everything else but gas, parking, and tolls.  These are fairly random events that just happen, or they're so cheap (like oil changes) that they seem that way.  They get mentally filed in the "stuff happens, and there is nothing you can do" category.

I suspect that for most people, most parking is just another monthly installment sunk cost.  They generally expect, and get, free parking (AKA paid by everyone else.)

So, finally, there are variable costs, such as gas, tolls, and metered or not-prepaid structure parking.  People resent these costs because they compete directly with their limited discretionary income.  A portion of these costs are probably mentally filed as fixed installment costs as well.  For example, people might expect to fill their tank once a week and pay $20 to do it.  However, anything beyond that is an un-mentally budgeted cost that takes away from other fun things.  

They resent it even more because they have already mentally budgeted $20, so it just isn't supposed to cost $40 instead.  They feel ripped off for the remaining $20.  Behavioral economists have found that people really hate getting snookered.  Gas is only supposed to cost $20 per week, so that extra $20 has to be some kind of theft; "must be corporate greed or something."

A corollary of the mental budgeting, which we have recently seen in action, is that people adjust their mental budgeting over time.  So millions of Americans adjusted their idea of the proper amount to pay for a truck/car over the course of the 90s to say that an SUV was a reasonable expenditure.  In the short term, people squealed when prices went up to $3 per gallon last summer, but then they calmed right down when prices dropped after that.  They had adjusted their mental budget for the higher prices, and felt better when they came back down.

The big problem is still coming.  That's when people attempt to reconcile their mental budgeting with their financial budget and realize that they can't make ends meet in the long run.  So far they seem to be just adding to their credit/housing debt. I suspect the real budget picture will become clear at about the same time they conclude that gas prices really aren't coming down much.

Sorry, didn't mean to write a book.  

BTW, 98 Subaru wagon, bought used with 156k miles on it for $3500 cash.  My little secret is that this is our third used Subaru wagon, and I know all the things that become problems, and how to head them off.  Besides that, we use it almost solely for highway driving.  We use the bikes in town.

My wife and I had a bit of a shock when I was writing the above book.  We've never had a car payment.  We always buy used cars for cash.

Great insight - book or not I found it very interesting.
All good arguments for leasing rather than
owning ..

Triff ..

Mental Accounting has been studied by Richard Thaler. He has also written an article about it. Good read.
The AAA analysis is for a shopper, looking at a new car.  For the average driver, it's just wrong.

AAA clearly assumes a new car. The average vehicle on the road is 10 years old. So the average depreciation is maybe $750, not over $3,000.

For the average person, gas prices really are a big % of their cost!