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74 comments on Driving Tests for Everyone, Regularly

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mkc on July 19, 2006 - 1:56pm Permalink | Subthread | Comments top
Great post.  When I was younger (and more ignorant), I used to ride my bike to school and work every day.  Now that I'm older and wiser, I realize that doing so in the current road environment in America today is taking my life in my hands.  (I don't feel that safe in my car, either.)

While it would be good to have grave penalties for drivers after they've killed, we also need serious penalties for those who engage in dangerous behavior, and who therefore, statistically, will eventually kill someone.  In my mind, a minimum of a month's gross salary and a one-month license revocation would be appropriate for a first offense.

Things won't improve until we get serious about this.
 

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odograph on July 19, 2006 - 3:03pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
This paper calculates that there is a net increase in life expectancy biking, even given the national accident stats:

http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/7/18/114410/016

FWIW, the stat given is that the U.S. suffers 72 fatalities per billion kilometers while biking, versus 6 fatalities per billion kilometers in cars.

Given the generally shorter mileage covered each year on a bike, that seems like good odds ... even car vs. bike.

(as always your neighborhood matters more than the national stats.)

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tate423 on July 19, 2006 - 3:06pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Here's my issues with this.  For one the licensing offices in my state are owned by cronies of the governor.  So these guys pratically print money.  There are fees on top of fees.  I don't mind paying some coin for the right to drive, but it shouldnt be going into a guys pocket.  I like the German approach to driving.  Lots and lots of practice and it COSTS a lot of money to drive.  Therefore the drivers tend to want to drive and thus learn.  The german drivers are second to none!

I only need to renew my license every 10 yrs!  People respond to cash demands, so make em pay up to drive.

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Nagorak on July 19, 2006 - 8:56pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I've seen several cars flipped over on the autobahn.  I'm not really convinced Germans are somehow superior drivers compared to other nations.  
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expat on July 19, 2006 - 11:06pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Well, yes and no.

The no part first - the people who drive are just humans, with all the flaws we all know too well. In my opinion, Germans are not better drivers, except for the points which follow in the yes section.

Yes, they are better, but for different reasons -

  1. A significant percentage of Germans don't have driver licenses - among this percentage are most likely to be people who shouldn't be driving anyways.
  2. Germans receive all kinds of training, in grade school, about how to ride a bicycle safely in traffic - though not quite as extensive as American high school driver's ed, it does have both a class room and a range component, maybe 5 hours or so of each, taught by the police (there are police officers whose sole job it is to teach these classes).
  3. It costs a lot of money (easily above $2,000) to get a license, and the driving test itself is 45 minutes to an hour long - and yes, people fail it quite regularly, and you have to wait a month before retaking it. The written test is multiple choice - and German multiple choice is interesting - all answers listed can be false, all can be true, or any combination in between - it isn't possible to pick the most likely one as a simple test beating strategy.
  4. Your license is a privilege that the state will happily take away - 3 months for running a red light, for example. Getting your license back takes considerable time and money.
  5. In the case listed above, the driver would have been charged with a felony (causing injury, basically), and their insurance (or themselves) would be responsible for all costs - for example, all lost income from his medical practice.

I have never actually seen a flipped car on the autobahn (a few times on other roads) - but some of the scrap metal produced is spectacular, until you think about what the people inside probably ended up as.

Actually, since I grew up and drive with a more or less American attitude, I generally let my wife drive in a German town or city - here, people on foot or bicycles are actually part of the traffic mix, and they actually act as if the car drivers will act that way. Partially because if the car drivers don't, they will be hunted down as dangerous criminals - which they are, of course. Since there basically is no reason to drive here (who cares if you need to get to work after you killed a child on a bicycle), losing your license is a matter of a few minutes for a police officer at the side of the road, and not a major court proceeding (I have read/been told - no personal experience there).

By the way, riding a motorcycle is not a problem - it is a different set of skills in most ways, along with the lack of blind spots and smaller size.

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beggar on July 19, 2006 - 3:54pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I am reluctant to accept the statistics from Grist above.

How many of the so-called "bike accidents" are actually caused by cars?  Also, how many happen when people are mountain or sport biking?

It seems to me that the "per billion kilometers" numbers are just WAGs even though some people may believe them to be actually descriptive of reality.

Also, I think there are a number of other questions to ask, as I've already noted.

Safe biking is possible -- I do it all the time.  Of course, I drive a pedalable "Hummer." (OrganicEngines SUV)

Safe driving is never, ever possible.

Every time we turn the key to start a fossil fuel burner, we are killing people and other creatures and poisoning the planet.

If that is not the antithesis of safety, than what is?

Also: every time one starts a fossil fuel burning engine, it is the moral and aesthetic equivalent of french kissing Dick Cheney....and then GW....and then Kenny Lay....and then... well, you get the picture!

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odograph on July 19, 2006 - 4:29pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
The numbers apparently come from "Pucher and Dijkstra. 2003. Promoting safe walking and cycling to improve public health: lessons from the Netherlands and Germany. American Journal of Public Health. 93(9): 1509-1516."

I'd be interested in other estimates, but it sounds a little different when we say they are from the "American Journal of Public Health" than just "Grist." ;-)

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Don Sailorman on July 19, 2006 - 9:41pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
i rode bicycles to school and college and my work from ages seven to sixty-one, when I retired. Now I ride more than ever and have accumulated more than 100,000 miles of accident-free bike riding. To tell the whole truth, I have never even had a close call.

My insight and tactics:

  1. be paranoid.
  2. Be much more totally paranoic, because they are out to get you.
  3. Realize that half of the drivers are impaired by drugs, alcohol, cell phones or are undergoing car-jacking, and a few are having fatal heart attacks as they realize they just killed that little kid who ran out in the road and is looking at her body and not your bike.
  4. Study bicycle riding from expert survivors.
  5. Ride motorcycles and experience even more malice and evil and danger from cars.

For some reason, big trucks are often kind to bicyclists.
Some school-bus drivers are very bad, but most are good.

  1. Keep your eyes moving: They can come at you from any direction.

  2. Increase paranoia to just barely below the point that the men with white coats takes you away to the rubber room.

  3. Practice panic stops.

  4. Always be mentally prepared to dump your bike in a ditch and take a broken bone rather than instant death.

  5. Do not bike unfamiliar routes except under ideal conditions. Familiarity with route is a HUGE safety factor.

  6. Helmets are good. I have been known to wear motorcycle body armor while on a pedal bike under circumstances where I thought ultra caution was called for.

  7. Stay on the trail. Ride on grass or sidewalks if that is safer in a particular situation. (I always have fat tires.)

  8. Ride an extra couple of miles if the longer route is safer.

  9. Don't ride too fast. Don't ride when very tired or emotionally upset. Do not carry your cell phone with you, or if you MUST, then turn it off until your bike is locked up and put away.

  10. If you can remember license numbers, report dangerous drivers; I've done this several times and have always gotten good feedback from the police. In one case my complaint triggered a huge drug bust.
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WinterIsComing on July 20, 2006 - 2:17am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Great list. I would add

16. Be assertive when it comes to your safety. Don't do anything dangerous for others' convenience.

I learnt this the stupid way about a week ago when I tried to jump with my bike over a gardening hose laid across my path, so as not to piss off the gardener standing nearby. I fell very quickly, onto concrete, and hit my knee pretty hard. Nothing broken, fortunately, but I will be unable to fully load my right leg for a few weeks.

Had I just ridden over the damn thing the worst thing that could have happened was hearing a few curses from the gardening dude. On the other hand, I could have stopped the bike, picked it up, stepped over the hose and hopped on the bike again. That would have been both safe and considerate. Next time I'll do it... NOT :-)

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kjmclark on July 20, 2006 - 7:03am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
You can shorten this list considerably.  In decending order of importance:

  1. Read Effective Cycling by John Forester.

  2. Take a League of American Bicyclists Road I course.

  3. Obey the laws.  Particularly the parts about never biking against traffic and using headlights in the dark and during precipitation.

  4. Avoid biking when and where drunks might be present.

  5. Be extra careful in intersections.

  6. When possible, live in a community where there are lots of other cyclists.

I've found that most large truck drivers are decent about passing safely because they have extra training and experience, know how big their truck is, and know that they may lose their job if they get complaints.
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Don Sailorman on July 20, 2006 - 1:22pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Amen.
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Gunga2006 on July 20, 2006 - 7:04am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
 I ride my motorcycle with the assumption that everyone is trying to kill me. Not that other drivers are simply incompetent but actually trying to kill me. I think it helps me maintain a high level of situational awareness.
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Mad Maxout on July 20, 2006 - 9:54pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I always assume I am completely invisible when walking or driving anything. Some days on my commute seem to be "National Idiots Day", days when all the idiots try to drive. It turns out that in many social situations I am so invisible that the Pentagon would be envious if I built a plane so invisible. On a "National Idiots Day" I'm more invisible than the F-117A stealth plane.

I would really hate to be on a bicycle on National Idiots Day.

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Substrate on July 20, 2006 - 3:10pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I once made the mistake of riding Merrimon Ave. here which few cyclists do because of its reputation, because it was going to save me a gazillion miles.  I found myself doing about 40 mph uphill on someone's bumper, with someone else nipping at my back tire just to keep from turning into a pancake.  After I turned off of it, it was like night and day.  One road makes a difference.  Fortunately there are a lot of nice, lightly traveled roads around here.

The big trucks are a lot more courteous, curiously enough.  It might just be that passing a bicycle is a lot more dangerous a proposition for them because they have to take up much more road, accelerate and stop more slowly, and have worse visibility.  I generally pay them back by getting off the road when I can, and generally try to do so when I can hear them approaching.

Though you take a substantial speed hit, riding a mountain bike, with fat - hybrid type tires, seems to substantially increase your likelyhood to survive.  When I ride my skinny tired bike, I have to avoid patches of gravel and going off the road is practically not an option.  But with the fat tires on the mountain bike, taking an excursion off road is about as hair raising a proposition as cereal in the morning.

I find it curious that you didn't include:

  • - if you have a train of cars building behind you, pull over and let them go

  • - if riding with a partner, ride one in front of the other rather than side by side

  • - don't take up the whole road

Extending courtesy to the drivers behind you is also quite important.  Even I have wanted to run people over for riding side by side and down the middle of the road, and it makes it more dangerous for all involved when passing.
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